Холиварофорум

Анон

English thread

Let's chat in English, dear anonymous! You can write about everything here, regardless of your level.

Your English level is…

1. A1(голосов 7 [3.55%])

   3.55%

2. A2(голосов 11 [5.58%])

   5.58%

3. B1(голосов 26 [13.2%])

   13.2%

4. B2(голосов 56 [28.43%])

   28.43%

5. C1(голосов 67 [34.01%])

   34.01%

6. C2(голосов 30 [15.23%])

   15.23%

Всего голосов: 197

Гости не могут голосовать

Анон

Re: English thread

Aren't you my classmate?
But then I didn't understand anything 

Who knows  I did understand some, Maria Magdalena's aria was pretty easy, but probably not a word of Iscariot's.

Анон

Re: English thread

Tbh I think it's harder to understand singing than normal talking

Анон

Re: English thread

my first non-sub movie was

'Frank' with Fassbender and Gleeson. It wasn't even on purpose but I somehow breezed through it without having too much difficulty, apparently? But I think by that point I didn't mind not knowing every word just understanding the context was fine.

My first fic was some Slender Man AU mini in Sherlock BBC fandom. Like everything in Sherlock BBC fandom it was that sort of AU where you needed to know the names of the main charcters only (maybe Lestrade and Mycroft too just to get familiar with the second pairing in command). I still think it is great (that plethora of different AUs) and for all the craziness and sea-lioning (look up the term in this thread) of the fandom I miss it. For all it's worth there was so much potential in the show more so with absurdly talented fans rather than creators. But still.
I went on a nostalgic tangent, sorry. Anyway.
That Slender Man-ish fic was the first one, than came others. It came to the point that now I find myself unable to read anything in Russian. I think I lost the ability to even search fics that suits my taste. I don't even know how people tag stuff. I mean I know all the ao3 shit and kind of judge the book by the length of warnings and all that... But if we're talking about Russian segment of Internet than how the hell do I eleminate everything that annoys me? Rhethorical question. Lots of practice and suffering.
I still have flashbacks form all the Pravdorub conversations about anons thinking it beneath their dignity to tag even major character death. And I'm that disgusting strict layout ladette.

Did the first language test thingie. I'm perplexed as are several nonnies here by US Black Vernacular / Ebonics (what gives?) but intrigued by guessed native languages which are Greek and Finnish (and Polish but that's not very far from Russian for me). And I'll take New Zealandish dialect, yes! I want to be a proud kiwi, I will watch The Lord of the Rings and go on Mordor tour 

Отредактировано (2021-12-29 17:10:20)

Анон

Re: English thread

Tbh I think it's harder to understand singing than normal talking

Too true! I think there should be a separate C3 level "understanding of singing"

Анон

Re: English thread

I still have flashbacks form all the Pravdorub conversations about anons thinking it beneath their dignity to tag even major character death. And I'm that disgusting strict layout ladette.

Eh, funnily enough, every time I see a discussion about tagging on FFA it's about "minimum tagging is the best, people who tag a lot are annoying, ship and CNTW are sufficient tagging, no one is obligated to tag anything above it" And yesterday I stumbled on r/fanfiction on reddit, there was the same song and dance there - I do what I want, I tag what I want, Major Character Death is a spoiler, I'll use Choose Not To Warn on every fic, how to avoid revealing that a fic is WIP and not have people yelling at me. So, I mean, English users are not much different, you idealize them. It's about the same. People never change.
And Ficbook actually has a way to search for a certain layout, as I discovered, there is a check-out "search exactly this sequence" when you're choosing names for a ship. Dunno, maybe you're lucky but in my fandom, almost no one on ao3 uses top!bottom! tags even though it's right there.

Анон

Re: English thread

So, I mean, English users are not much different, you idealize them.

I'm different anon, I read mostly fics in english on AO3, and practically all of them tagged. I see most of fics with almost no tags on AO3 when I don't choose language and stumble on russian fics.

Анон

Re: English thread

I see most of fics with almost no tags on AO3 when I don't choose language and stumble on russian fics.

Well, that's, you know, because ao3 tagging system is in English and most Russian authors don't know enough English to tag something beyond basic stuff they know or see other Russian authors use Ao3 is typically a secondary archive for them and they're trying their best but it's unfriendly to a person who is not English-savvy. Like, try to tag in Finnish and see how much you can manage. But you can go to Ficbook where everything is in Russian - the majority of authors there uses tags rather generously nowadays.

Анон

Re: English thread

What is your FFA you guys keep talking about

Анон

Re: English thread

What is your FFA you guys keep talking about

C'mon, use search or go to the first pages, nonnie. There was a link somewhere and it gets mentioned every few pages. In short, it's something like Pravdorub was but in English. Fandom anon meme called fail-fandomanon on dreamwidth.

Анон

Re: English thread

What is your FFA you guys keep talking about

https://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/

Comment threads in each entry function somewhat like threads here. Top level comment is the topic of the thread. To see what's here you can choose the 'top level comments only' under the entry.

Анон

Re: English thread

Well, that's, you know, because ao3 tagging system is in English and most Russian authors don't know enough English to tag something beyond basic stuff they know or see other Russian authors use

My point was about english users using lots of tags.

Анон

Re: English thread

Well, that's, you know, because ao3 tagging system is in English and most Russian authors don't know enough English to tag something beyond basic stuff they know or see other Russian authors use

My point was about english users using lots of tags.

Russian users use lots of tags too when they understand them. Go to ficbook and you'll see. Ao3 is not very relevant for Russian fics in general, there are only some authors who're cross-posting their stuff to ao3.

Анон

Re: English thread

Russian users use lots of tags too when they understand them. Go to ficbook and you'll see. Ao3 is not very relevant for Russian fics in general, there are only some authors who're cross-posting their stuff to ao3.

You still missing the point. Look at the quote I answered first. Russian tags are irrelevant here, it was just example of users who don't tag much on AO3.

Анон

Re: English thread

Russian users use lots of tags too when they understand them. Go to ficbook and you'll see. Ao3 is not very relevant for Russian fics in general, there are only some authors who're cross-posting their stuff to ao3.

You still missing the point. Look at the quote I answered first. Russian tags are irrelevant here, it was just example of users who don't tag much on AO3.

No, it's you who is missing it Ao3 is irrelevant when it comes to Russian fics and their tagging. Because ao3 is a foreign site that doesn't have tags in Russian so people who don't know English (aka the majority of Russian ficwriters) can barely use it. Some of them learned how to post there via basic instructions and all but tagging actually requires an understanding of tags. Which are written in a foreign language. It doesn't mean that Russian users on ao3 don't want to tag. They just can't.

And before you go "google translate", try to google translate some watersports or vore or BAMF Yoda or dead dove or whatever. That's not to say that ao3 tag system is overcomplicated and I have no idea why, for example, tags "butt plugs" and "anal plug" exist at the same time and have different results when they mean exactly the same. And it feels like half of the English-speaking users can't tell a difference between "no archive warnings apply" and "choose not to warn" and thinks they mean the same when they mean very different things. And you want people whose English level is "London is the capital of Great Britain" at max navigate in all this and tag on par with natives. Seriously?

Анон

Re: English thread

Ao3 is irrelevant when it comes to Russian fics and their tagging.

We're not talking about russians fics and their tagging.  We talk about how much english speaking users tag. And as I said, they tag a lot. You're the one who keeps bring up russians, even if I said already said it was just example of who don't put a lot of tags on AO3. It was like 'yeah, there is people who don't use much tags on AO3, russians for example'. I said russians and not other foreigners because for some reason others actually also put more than few tags, even chinese, I have no idea how, but they do. That's it. 
Why the heck you keep talking about my imaginary demands to russian users to tag anything I have no idea.

Отредактировано (2021-12-29 20:28:18)

Анон

Re: English thread

We're not talking about russians fics and their tagging.  We talk about how much english speaking users tag. And as I said, they tag a lot. You're the one who keeps bring up russians, even if I said already said it was just example of who don't put a lot of tags on AO3. It was like 'yeah, there is people who don't use much tags on AO3, russians for example'.

It started with "oh, Russians don't tag while English speakers tag a lot and are therefore superior, I can't read Russian fics because of that!".
When in fact Russian fics are tagged pretty generously nowadays (in Russian) and I regularly see tagging wanks in English (and was pretty butthurt a few times over NOTP appearing untagged etc, the "English speaking users always tag everything!" attitude is overblown). And then there are walls of tags popular on ao3 which are super annoying on their own. Not like people don't do that on ficbook too, lol.
But ok, that's a useless wank.

Анон

Re: English thread

It started with "oh, Russians don't tag while English speakers tag a lot and are therefore superior, I can't read Russian fics because of that!"

I didn't read the whole discussion. I said I'm different anon and addressed only one phrase. Imo, majority of writers tag enough, and exceptions exist also everywhere.

Анон

Re: English thread

Where's the knowledge level "хз"?)

Анон

Re: English thread

It started with "oh, Russians don't tag while English speakers tag a lot and are therefore superior, I can't read Russian fics because of that!".

You are being overly dramatic here, anon. I didn't say anything like that. I said and meant that it's easier to navigate myself through ao3 because n my experience English speakers have less qualms in tagging stuff I care about. It's not fair to say every fic has them but в среднем по больнице - yes they do.
But then again I don't read Russian stuff as extensively as English ones for several years now and I'd bet there is a certain influence from niche kink appreciators and maybe from ao3 if only from bilingual writers. And I definitely saw some tagged works in Fandom Battles and such.

Eh, funnily enough, every time I see a discussion about tagging on FFA it's about "minimum tagging is the best, people who tag a lot are annoying, ship and CNTW are sufficient tagging

And I wholeheartedly agree. If warnings need to be scrolled when using phone this piece of work is beyond salvation in my eyes. 
Because it's not about every irrelevant detail in the fic it's more about a certain aspect of the relationship dynamic or the character trait or simple situational plot point. You know specific term that can lead you to other similar stuff. It's useful and brings me a lot of stuff, great stuff, from unfamiliar fandoms I wouldn't stumble across otherwise.

Отредактировано (2021-12-30 18:51:38)

Анон

Re: English thread

Do you think it's important to get rid of the Russian accent?

Анон

Re: English thread

Do you think it's important to get rid of the Russian accent?

You'll never get rid of it, just leave it alone, there is nothing bad in accents. Just make sure that other people can understand your pronunciation, it'll be enough. For this, I recommend listening to natives and repeating until you sound similar.

Анон

Re: English thread

Do you think it's important to get rid of the Russian accent?

Nah. Only important if you're going to be a spy 

Анон

Re: English thread

Strangely enough, when I started reading English forums/sites about language stuff, I was surprised that a lot of people actually say that they like the Russian accent. And rather a lot of people say it, like, they consider it attractive even. I somehow grew up thinking that the typical Russian accent is awful and cringey and I was ashamed of mine etc. Probably courtesy of Marivanna, a spherical English teacher in a vacuum, who criticized everything and installed the thought that you must speak perfectly before you dare to open your mouth etc. So it was kinda mind-blowing to read that someone actually likes that imperfect shameful way of speaking that indicates that you failed your language training blah.

Анон

Re: English thread

I think people usually call Russian accent scary, which is also cool 

Анон

Re: English thread

Only important if you're going to be a spy

And even then, you can always say that you are from a small village in the south of Yorkshire.